page title icon Episode 004: Bullhorn Live, Podcast Ad Spend, and Google’s Lyra

Bullhorn Live, Podcast Ad Spend, and Google’s Lyra

Pedro whips out his Bullhorn, Roman shares news 41% better than what he shared last week, and Tanner gets straight Lyra-cal.


  1. [00:05:27] Pedro preaches the word of Bullhorn Live, a new audio service from the creators of FreeConferenceCall.com (say what?).
  2. [00:14:30] Tanner does some bitrate kbps math and is blown away by Lyra’s compressive power.
  3. [00:21:30] We find out where Roman’s first, and only, non-5-star review came from, and why it was left.

Resources & Links

eMarketer projects podcast ad spend to grow 41% in 2021, as reported by IndsideRadio

Bullhorn releases Bullhorn Live for podcasters and online creators

Google’s AI Lab decided to reinvent audio compression. They call it Lyra.

The Psychology of Color by IgnyteBrands.com

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Thanks to Daniel J Lewis, our listeners cant get a free 3-week trial from MyPodcastReviews.com (offer automatically applied in cart)

Automated Transcript from Episode #004 (expand to view)

Automated transcripts are not 100% accurate. Please use this transcript only for cursory reference. If you need to quote any of our content, please contact us.

Tanner: Well, Hey there and welcome back to real talk podcasting. I am one of your hosts, Tanner Campbell, and I’m joined by my cohost, Pedro and Roman Roman. What’s up. What’s going on, Pedro? My dude.

[00:00:14] Pedro: What’s going on? How’s

[00:00:15] Tanner: everybody doing pretty good, man. Rumor has it that you’ve recently received access to a brand new cool app from our friend Mohit.

[00:00:24] Is this true? This is true. What’s the name of the app? Pedro. We talked

[00:00:29] Pedro: about it in our first

[00:00:30] Tanner: episode, does it rhyme with smile? Abide? It does rhyme with smile abide. That’s pretty cool. What do you think of it so far? I really,

[00:00:37] Pedro: really like it. Definitely going to be a game changer once it goes out to everybody, once

[00:00:43] Tanner: they let us on there.

[00:00:44] Oh yeah. Little house cleaning. Before we get started, I wanted to thank a new review, a new reviewer that is straight killer. I’ve been following these guys on clubhouse for about a month and they are the real deal. I’ve learned a lot from them in that short amount of time. And I highly recommend listening to the show to stay up to date with current trends in the podcast industry.

[00:01:05] Thank you gentlemen, for such a great show. Well, thank you straight killer for such a great review. Really appreciate that this week, we’re going to start off with Roman. Who’s got some news from the marketing side of the podcasting industry, Roman. Take it away. Yep.

[00:01:19] Roman: So e-marketer basically sees podcasts ad growth.

[00:01:24] Going to be 41% in 2021 and podcasts, digital audio share, being expanded greatly from, you know, year over year. So I see potential in that. Obviously I equate it to more people getting into the space, more shows more networks. You know, more ad revenue is always great. And e-marketer also forecast a 1.2 billion in total podcast, ad revenue for 2021.

[00:01:54] I think it’s the first time that they forecast that it being over a billion, which is interesting. And I think we spoke about it offline or a clubhouse at some point that they see Spotify overtaking Apple podcasts this year, too. And overall. Listens as well. So pretty interesting in terms of the space, obviously there’s other ways to monetize, but I mean, there’s plenty of ad revenue and the fact that audio, especially podcasts is becoming so prevalent and more mainstream and more adoptable.

[00:02:26] I think that’s one of those things we spoke about with the pods, a CEO, when people start adopting things, it gets easier in terms of, you know, acceptance as well.

[00:02:37] Tanner: The Spotify part interests me. Like, do you feel like Spotify might have a, I mean, I know this is a little off topic, but do you think Spotify might have an unfair advantage here when talking about overtaking Apple?

[00:02:47] I mean, most of the developing world doesn’t use Apple products. They’re going to be using Android based products. So, I mean, I realize that Spotify is not strictly Android, but it’s, I don’t know, maybe more easily accessible to people on the Android or more common. Do you think there’s anything, anything in play there?

[00:03:03] Um, It is obviously the

[00:03:05] Roman: technology, but I feel like the adoption, like Apple podcasts has done absolutely nothing to better that experience or do anything in terms of podcast listeners. And, you know, since I got Apple podcasts, but I’ve had Spotify prior to using Apple podcasts and prior to using, uh, or being a podcast or, and starting a podcast.

[00:03:26] So. Uh, I think in terms of Spotify, that’s their overall product. And they’re kind of going all in on podcasts and now monetizing giving opportunities for subscription-based programs, for podcasts as well. So they’re actually adding a lot of possibilities for creators to adopt and kind of push, push people also to their platform over Apple podcasts.

[00:03:50] So regardless of where somebody listens, some people are podcasts is, may have been. Preferring to push to Apple podcasts, besides if they had a website. Now, if they’re, you know, incentivizing and enticing creators to utilize the platform more, they’re more likely to push traffic to Spotify

[00:04:07] Tanner: as well. It is such a shame that Apple, you know, kind of the owners of podcasts as a medium, or at least the inventors, there’s probably some argument to be had there, but at least the popular risers of podcasts, haven’t done more.

[00:04:21] You know, I got really excited when they rolled out their beta and that was back in iOS 11. Right? So that was, that was years ago at this point. And they just never did any, it’s still in beta for goodness sake. I keep hoping that they’re sitting on something really amazing and they keep letting me down every year.

[00:04:37] I’m hoping for, you know, in the last quarter and it never comes. It’s such a bummer. Pedro, are you sad by that? Are you a sad Pedro, when you think about that? Yeah, man, I am.

[00:04:48] Pedro: It makes me tear up. It makes me tear up so bad.

[00:04:52] Tanner: Meanwhile, I can’t even see all my reviews in one place. We’re getting sake, Apple, at least give us that.

[00:04:57] Give us a country selector. That’s a little bit more accessible. Get your weight up. Apple. Come on, man. I found out we had reviews in Canada, Australia and the UK earlier today. It took me like 15 minutes to find him. I really need to subscribe to Daniel J. Lewis, his service, my podcast reviews. I think it is.

[00:05:13] We’ll put a link in the, put a link in the description and Daniel will send us a check for $5 for mentioning it.

[00:05:26] What do you got for us this week? As you know,

[00:05:28] Pedro: podcasters are always looking for new in. Easier ways to streamline our process. So Bullhorn, and for those that don’t know who Bullhorn is, it’s a sister partnered from free conference call.com. One of the biggest conference call, uh, providers and, uh, people in the world think they have about 800,000 businesses that they service for their.

[00:05:53] Conference calling and, uh, live stream integrations, enterprises, but Bullhorn, uh, it’s releasing a game, changing live, listen, podcasting feature, which is really cool. Because again, as a podcast or you do all the legwork upfront, you record, you edit, you, put it on there, you wait for somebody to come, you know, review it.

[00:06:15] You wait for somebody to give it five stars. This new game-changing live. Feature that they have will let you not only insert dynamic as that come up in real time, live that your listeners can now click on and go to whether it’s a service, a product. Um, but you can also pull in real time there’s chat rooms where you’re be able to your audience while they’re listening, can go interact and Migo with each other.

[00:06:42] So networking along with your audience while they’re listening to your show, as well as a call-in function. And that kind of plays into more a radio, but if you have a good topic that you’re talking about on your podcast and you want to have somebody call in, they are able to call in, uh, it’s very, very, very cool.

[00:07:01] Uh, they have a studio integrated. In their website to where you’re able to go in there and look at all of this, uh, how many people you have, where all the comments are. So I just thought this would be very, very cool. It’s kind of going into what we already do, like on clubhouse and how Twitter spaces and how soon to be fireside chat will be coming about.

[00:07:23] So this here really changes the game of podcasting.

[00:07:26] Tanner: So I’m looking at this, I’m looking at the, at the UI and we’ll post some pictures on the website, maybe, uh, on the, on the dedicated page for this, uh, for this episode, it looks like it’s combining, and it almost has a blog talk radio feel to it like the aesthetic of it, which is not a compliment Bullhorn.

[00:07:44] You could do better with your, with your UI a hundred percent, but you’re just starting out, but it still looks like they’re combining blog talk radio features and they’re combining Spreaker features like this has got to feel somewhat similar to what you’re using, right. Pedro for safety, XM, FM.

[00:07:58] Pedro: That is exactly correct.

[00:08:00] And the good thing about bull horns, new release again at the end, they’re just starting out. Uh, they released it last, I believe. Uh, 2019, they started with the beta. They. Took it back now they’re pulling it out again. Uh, but what’s cool about it is it’s free. Uh, I also liked, you know, when I, when I read up on this and, and figured this was going to be my topic, I read that they are also making a subscription portion to where you’re able to integrate that and make different tiers.

[00:08:31] So that way your audience can now kinda like, uh, Tip jar or support, uh, in real time. Right, right then and there, similar to what YouTube and like Twitch does for their lives, shows that they host and people that are on those spaces, you’ll be able to do that for the podcast

[00:08:49] Tanner: and space. So this really makes me think of when we were talking to Doug in the last episode about how this old method of delivery.

[00:08:57] For podcasts needs to be changed in order for these monetization methods, these communication methods, interaction methods, rather to, to come about and to be useful. And you know, we’re looking at clubhouse and now you’ve got access to fireside Pedro, and soon we will as well, hopefully. And now we’re seeing this from Bullhorn.

[00:09:16] I mean, it seems like he’s right. And it seems like maybe we’re moving to these platform based podcast delivery over RSS. I mean, this is still early days, but. Man. I would love to see that I know that’s blasphemy, but I would really love to see us move away from RSS and do something that was just a little that enabled us to serve our communities better.

[00:09:34] This is still, you know, I like podcasting, but wouldn’t it be great if right now we could do something with the audience that was listening instead of them listening in a archival kind of on-demand format. It has its place, but some of us want to do more than just archival, you know, audio on demand, AOD.

[00:09:51] Do we call it that podcasts are just AOD, but yeah, this is really cool, man. And you know, what’s funny is that every now and then I’ll get an email. It’s funny. I didn’t think about this for some reason that I just remembered this. I will get emails from a free conference call.com account that I created like 10 years ago.

[00:10:09] I still have it. People still call it. I don’t know what in the world they’re using it for. There’s probably some terrorist organization using my free conference call.com account, but I’ll go on and I’ll see activity. And I still own this thing. And you know what, when I was using it, I think I was using it as like, I think I was using mixed minus thing on a board to be able to kind of facilitate like a live call-in quote unquote experience.

[00:10:32] And this was man, this is going back a long time ago and I never had any problems with it. Other than the fact that it would tell you it was brought to you by free conference call when you first logged in and this conference is provided by other than that, there was nothing to complain about. I mean, it was a free conference calling platform and it was pretty good.

[00:10:50] I’m glad they’re still out there kicking, and now it looks like they’re trying to innovate a little bit, so that’s pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

[00:10:55] Pedro: It was definitely interesting when I came across that. So figured I’d let our audience know, you know, some of the things that are out there changing the world of podcasting.

[00:11:04] Tanner: By the way I didn’t say so at the top of this, but we voted in the last episode, Ryan, about what do you want first news or questions. And you’ll notice that we’re doing the news first and that’s because almost none of you wanted to hear the answers to listener questions. First y’all wanted the news. So you win.

[00:11:21] Thank you for voting. I’m glad we made it easy enough for you all to do that. Uh, and the yeses had it, the news first people had it by a large margin. So thanks for voting. We appreciate that.

[00:11:35] Right.

[00:11:43] And finally this week, I’ve got something from the Google AI blog, which absolutely just kind of blew my socks off and didn’t believe it when I saw it originally, I think reported in pod news.net. Is that right? Pedro? Cause you’re the one who actually keeps me into the article. Yes, that is correct.

[00:11:56] Pedro: Pug news.net.

[00:11:57] Tanner: So Google AI, which is, I guess, probably their top secret, most cool department that works on insane things that seem impossible. Everybody who makes podcasts know that you export your audio as an MP3, usually it’s an MP3, and it’s probably somewhere between 128 kilobit per second. Or like maybe as low as 64 kilobit per second.

[00:12:18] But if you go much lower than 64 kbps you get some pretty “ehh” audio and even at 64, it’s pretty “ehh”, especially if there’s any music involved, but that means that most podcasts episodes at their smallest, if they’re an hour long are usually going to be around 64 kilobit per second. I don’t have the calculator in front of me, but I think that’s going to be like a 20 megabyte file.

[00:12:39] So if you’re living in a part of the world that doesn’t have great internet speed, or you’re just in a rural area, in a great part of the world, but you don’t have good service or something. Uh, it becomes very difficult to engage with podcasting content or really any streaming content that can only be compressed as so much before it becomes kind of useless.

[00:12:58] And that’s especially true in audio. So Google’s got this new compression algorithm, which actually do you guys remember the show Silicon Valley? Yeah, where do they come up with that pied Piper thing that compresses the data just in general made me think of that. And this thing will compress audio down to three kilobits per second.

[00:13:15] And it sounds pretty good. Like, it sounds better than a 64 kilobit per second MP3. That is for sure. And I’m going to put a link in the description of this episode so that you can go and hear these. You’ll hear the original, you’ll hear Opus, which is a dot, uh, Oggy. That’s it six kilobits per second. It sounds terrible.

[00:13:35] And they take the same audio file and encoded it three kilobit per second. So you think it would be half as good or twice as terrible. However you wanted to look at that and it sounds. Pretty lost less. I mean, it’s not lossless as there, you can definitely hear some lossiness in it, but it definitely would be at just as good as 128 kilobit per second MP3.

[00:13:53] According to my ears on open speakers, I was really impressed by it. They also have examples for sort just the speech, like alone, perfect speech in a studio environment, and then imperfect speech in a noisy, you know, not studio environment. Uh, and it’s. It is pretty frigging good. And it seems like it doesn’t just do audio.

[00:14:14] It does video as well, because there are some using Google duo, which currently uses this compression algorithm I think, or is testing it. There are some video examples on the page, the reference original, the OG Opus, and then the Lira. Uh, it, it looks really good. Like I, this blows my mind. So if you’re thinking of three kilobit per second, like now I will pull up the calculator.

[00:14:37] Hold on a second. Okay. So through the magic of editing, I’ve just pulled up the calculator in no time flat. And if we look at a one hour long audio recording, That is, that has a sample rate of 44, one and a bit depth of 16 bit and is a single channel mano. And we compress it at a, at a bit rate of three.

[00:14:58] Then the file size is going to be 1.3, five megabytes for a one hour long audio recording, which is bonkers. I, we don’t have the adult language label because I would use a different word. It’s bonkers that’s bonkers. That means that you can take professional grade experiences. Like maybe we can do 3d audio recordings.

[00:15:23] Maybe we can do binaural recordings and we can actually get it to places that otherwise would normally be able to enjoy that kind of content at that level of quality. So this is like a huge win for accessibility, rural areas, bad service areas, developing market areas in the developing world. This is huge.

[00:15:41] This is pretty cool. Roman from a marketing perspective, I feel like. This means that marketing gets to get into places maybe that they wouldn’t normally get into and mediums that it wouldn’t normally be able to get into it there. Do you see it that way? Like now you’ve got podcasts reaching places it couldn’t before, which means you’ve got podcasts ads getting into places it couldn’t before.

[00:16:00] So does that change the landscape? Yeah, I mean, it, it depends,

[00:16:04] Roman: uh, I mean, I would have to look at specific continents or countries in terms of like what we’re actually looking at metrics like currently. Not that many listeners or shows in the specific region versus like quality of, you know, internet versus, you know, other things and see, you know, where that goes.

[00:16:23] But yeah, I mean, if you make like the, the barrier to entry lower, and anyone can be on a somewhat equal playing field in that sense, then yet adoption should happen. And then obviously the more shows, the more people listening to it. I mean, it could be like a snowball

[00:16:40] Tanner: effect. I feel like this means you could listen to a podcast on like a Nokia flip phone while you were playing snake and it would sound great.

[00:16:58] All right. Second half of the show, we’re into questions from our listeners. And the first one comes from Monica Brown, who has a question about creating promo packs for guests. So she runs a podcast and she. I had a guest. This is very uncommon. And anybody out there has a podcast knows how uncommon this is.

[00:17:15] That the guests would say, Hey, how can I help promote the episode? Uh, because they almost never care. Uh, but, but Monica has a guest that really, really cares and wants to, wants to do some promotion and asked for a promo pack and Monica wasn’t completely sure what should be included in one of those. So Roman, you have a great one.

[00:17:34] Do you want to talk about what’s in yours? What tools you use to create the things you put in yours and how you distribute that to the guests so that they can help promote.

[00:17:43] Roman: Yeah. So I have a thing that I call a go live kit, basically. So actually over time, I think at this point I’ve done like 300 interviews and over time people actually did start asking for it as well.

[00:17:56] Some of the people that like jumped the gun, as soon as they went on the show, they start posting and are eager to post it. There are some people like that. Obviously that’s kind of the anomaly, but really I give assets for them to, uh, promote, uh, as easily as possible. So I create a video clips, usually one to two with a v.io.

[00:18:18] I create at least one audio gram with wave. And then I give them the, uh, episode cover as well as the, uh, the show cover show cover, because some people like to add to their kind of media page on their website, the podcasts you’ve been on the media appearances, and that helps it. And that actually gives an easy link to your show because they would be linking to the interview itself.

[00:18:43] In the body of the email. I personalize it to that person. Maybe I want to touch base because my episodes usually launch a few months, at least from the recording date. So I kind of touch base, see what they’re doing. Kind of a think about what that conversation was about. If anything changed in case I have to go into show notes and update anything, get that information.

[00:19:06] If I can be of any help to them. Usually like in terms of me adding value, I’ll usually say, Hey. Uh, if there’s any guests that you would, uh, you would want on, on your show, if it’s an interview based show. So, um, I’m always happy to provide a list of the guests I’ve had on. And if any of those make sense, I’m always happy to, you know, start that conversation for you and then other things, uh, where it can be found any texts that I would like them specifically to share.

[00:19:33] Besides obviously the episode name such as a lead in. And, uh, ask them in that point as well. If they enjoyed the interview, uh, to, you know, possibly leave a review, that’s a good place to do it. I actually like reviews in the sense that have guests that were on the show and their experiences, because sometimes when a potential guest for your show is evaluating, if they should go on your show or not, they might go into the reviews and see if there’s any other people that were on.

[00:20:04] And what experiences they have had. So I do it mainly for that reason as well. And, um, it’s kinda somewhat short to the point and, uh, those media assets really

[00:20:15] Tanner: help as well. It’s interesting to approach the reviews from a position of review your experience as a guest, as opposed to review the show. I almost think that that would have a pretty high conversion rate.

[00:20:27] Do you find that people usually bite on that Roman? Yeah.

[00:20:30] Roman: And I usually, usually they’ll actually do it before. Yeah. Or even ask them, um, if they really had a good experience or they’ve had a conversation where like I opened up ideas where they haven’t shared on other shows or made them really think they kind of jumped the gun and do it themselves and not even wait for that go live kit for me to possibly ask them for, you know, a review.

[00:20:51] I’m not asking them to necessarily. Uh, you know, present, uh, their experience on the show, but many of them, the majority, if their guests do it that way, but if they were listeners prior, if they listened to a few episodes before coming on the show, just to get a sense of what the show was about. Sometimes they elect to, you know, talk about the show as a whole, or, you know, another interview or episode that they.

[00:21:16] You know, care

[00:21:17] Tanner: to listen, to, to speak to how effective, uh, Roman might be in, in getting reviews for his, for his own show. Roman currently has for his podcast, which is called digital Savage experience. He has 365 reviews from 218 episodes. Which is better than one review per episode. So that’s pretty cool.

[00:21:40] Are you going to review for every day of the year? You literally only have one, four star review. It’s the only thing. That’s not a five and I want to find it right now and find out what made this one person give you four stars. I have to know what the one, four star review.

[00:21:54] Roman: Well, it’s actually like a lot more than three.

[00:21:56] That’s obviously the ones in the U S the reviews coming from globally. I think there’s another, like

[00:22:02] Tanner: 150 or so don’t get defensive. I’m just trying to give you a

[00:22:05] Roman: holistic view because you’re just, you know, just tipping the iceberg in terms of the amount and the quality. So kind

[00:22:11] Tanner: of got it. So it’s even better than, than we thought even better, even better.

[00:22:16] So, so this is the four-star review says. Great inspiration. Do you need some inspiration? This may be the podcast for you instead of hearing how great people have done all their lives. This one gives you the backstory on different professionals lives and how they got to where they’re at. Don’t let the overdone intro turn you off.

[00:22:34] Roman has a great voice. That’s easy to listen to. So she wanted to give you a little bit of. Of suffering. She gave you four stars instead of five stars. She doesn’t want you to feel like you’ve done great, your whole, your whole podcasting career. So she gave you that forest. Well, now I gotta

[00:22:49] Roman: find her. So I gotta be the, uh, the John wick of podcasting,

[00:22:53] Tanner: like puppy.

[00:22:57] That’s why we’re so proud of our one star. That was the first review we got was a one star son of a gun. You don’t know what you’re doing. You’re motivating us. You’re going to make it worse for yourself. We really thought we were one star worthy. All right, next question. This one comes from Alex Steele, who hosts a podcast called entertain this, which is kind of squarely in the philosophical area of podcasting.

[00:23:18] It is, it is entertaining in the sense of entertain this idea, not like entertain me and make me laugh. So Alex’s question is after you launch, what’s the first step to growing Pedro. Take it away after

[00:23:32] Pedro: you launch, you have already done, you know, some footwork in getting that show out there. Uh, what’s the next step to grow?

[00:23:40] Uh, consistently show up and make sure that you are tapping into those, um, mediums that you have those social media outlets that you do have to grow your audience, uh, engage in who you have coming to your podcast. Not only that when you do promote your guest, tap into your guests, audience, grow, cross pollinate, help each other out.

[00:24:05] And this is after you launch again, you do a lot of work. Prior to the launch, you do a lot of foot work getting ready to, you know, actually launch Hammond three to four episodes in the can ready to go. But after you released those initial three to four episodes, the next thing to grow is consistency.

[00:24:23] Consistently show up, even if you don’t feel well, which is why you have three or four episodes in the can. So that way you give yourself a buffer. Not only that make sure that you are putting quality content out there, that your audience is going to listen to social media. Uh, you know, we’re a big fan here at real talk podcasting of both organic and paid social Philip.

[00:24:45] Let me reiterate that one more time. Organic and paid social. Get the best of both worlds, you can grow your listener ship and, um, your audience,

[00:24:55] Tanner: next question comes from Ian Johnson, who I think has asked a question in a previous episode, but I can’t remember. He is the host of, or one of two hosts from the shitty mashups podcast.

[00:25:04] And that doesn’t count as a swear word because it’s a proper noun. A name of a thing. Is that, is that a proper noun? I don’t know. It’s been a, it’s been a long time. Ian asks, what is a tool that more people should use or that you’d like to see more people use that you feel they’re not using currently?

[00:25:20] For me, that’s a limiter in post-production. So when you’re editing your podcast and you’ve got all your plugins running and doing fancy stuff and making your audio sound great, a lot of people forget that in addition to the loudness targets that you’re trying to hit minus 14 or minus 16 lofts or somewhere, thereabouts, they may not be aware that another good practice is that you don’t want any portion of your audio to peak above a certain level of DB.

[00:25:46] And that peak for me and my practice is. Minus 1.5 DB. And so if the last thing you put on your channel strip, usually on the master. Is a limiter than you can do a hard limit at minus 1.5 DB, true peak, and no portion of your audio will ever exceed minus 1.5 DB. Now it’s important that if you’re monitoring your audio and using a limiter, that your master, the last thing on your master is the loudness monitor.

[00:26:13] And the second to last thing is the limiter. Because if you are monitoring loudness before the limiter, it’ll actually end up being a little quieter than what the loudest monitor says, Pedro, you’ve got one, two something you use in post-production as well. So

[00:26:24] Pedro: what I use, I, as the, the S or the DSS, or helps you get some of those high-frequency harsh, semblances out of your production.

[00:26:34] Uh, you know, those symbolises lie in those frequencies between two and 10 kilohertz. So depending on the individual voice, But, um, luckily we have a good audio engineer sound engineer, and that takes a lot of that stuff out when it happens to us. Uh, and usually those symbolises are associated with certain syllables, uh, S X, Z.

[00:26:57] Um, so just to name a couple, but it’s good to use the DSR in, in your workflow and in your post-production, because what ends up happening is you’re able to take those, um, out and not make them so harsh. So the DSR use the DSR. As much as

[00:27:15] Tanner: possible friend of the show, Brendan  asks about the important elements of cover art.

[00:27:21] So what is important? What makes good cover art? I want to start with Roman. He’s wants to talk a little bit about color and the importance of color.

[00:27:28] Roman: Yeah. So in terms of kind of marketing and branding, I think it’s important, the color scheme, the color or colors that you pick. In terms of your show or your company or your brand to evoke and really match what the show is about the tone you have, what the position it is.

[00:27:43] Maybe it’s a, you know, a motivation show. Maybe it’s a meditation show or a healing. If you position that you want more, you know, softer colors may be a yellow, maybe a light blue things of that nature. And that’s why a lot of big brands you see use specific colors, you know, McDonald’s Coca Cola companies like that.

[00:28:03] So, I mean, I think people overlook that that’s one of the things where it’s like, Oh, I want to stand out. Let me, let me pick red. But there is also a strategy where if there are specific shows within a category that let’s say all have predominantly yellow, orange, or a specific color scheme, that you do something the opposite just to stand now.

[00:28:23] And there’s that position where you’re not necessarily looking at the psychology of the color, but you’re really optimizing to stand out against all the other. Covers in that category. So I’ve seen that strategy

[00:28:35] Tanner: as well. So that’s interesting is that that goes further than just podcasts cover. I mean, your TA, I know that something that I’ve talked to, some of my students about is when you’re thinking about branding, it’s not the colors that you like.

[00:28:49] It’s the colors, which psychologically convey certain feelings, which is what you’re talking about. Right. Roman. Yup to match

[00:28:55] Roman: it to what you’re doing, you know, your value proposition, your core kind of values of your company, who you are, or as a brand. And similarly, if this is like an aggressive, like a MMA podcast or something like that, you may use like a black or a dark red and things of that nature, but you’re not necessarily going to do that to begin with.

[00:29:14] And it’s, I mean, people don’t necessarily think about it, but you do kind of start off with a specific kind of. Mentality or, you know, an emotional state that you can start relating to a potential listener right off the bat with something that they’re not even necessarily are conscious

[00:29:30] Tanner: of. D I wonder, do you use not use specifically, but does a person derive a certain response from a color universally or globally, or does yellow convey a different emotion in Germany?

[00:29:43] Than it would in Japan than it would in Arizona. That’s

[00:29:47] Roman: a good question. I think culturally there’s, there’s things of that nature where it’s like, you know, red may mean something and you know, the U S where in like Eastern Europe, it may mean something totally different. That’s not like a one-on-one example, but usually if they’re global brands, like, you know, McDonald’s Coca-Cola and companies like that, they’ll use that branding globally.

[00:30:09] So at that point, that’s what they’re known for. But yeah, I see what you’re saying. Uh, in terms of like certain colors may have different meanings in different parts of the

[00:30:18] Tanner: world. It almost makes you aware if that’s true. And I think that, I mean, we’re going off of gut feelings and experience, but I I’d imagine that that is probably true because every culture is different.

[00:30:28] Every color is going to mean something different. I know that for example, Starbucks had a hard time in Southeast Asia when they first brought stores there because green is associated with like cleaning products. So it was weird to be associated with a. Coffee product or that’s a story I heard. I don’t know how true it is.

[00:30:44] It would be interesting. Then if you could specify specific artwork for a specific, uh, country stores or a region stores within Apple podcasts, or what have you, that’d be kind of cool. But since Apple podcasts, isn’t doing anything to elevate podcasts. I guess they’re going to let Spotify do it. Maybe we would go to Spotify.

[00:31:00] That’s right. Apple. I’m talking ish about you. I know

[00:31:03] Pedro: Brandon asks, how does it affect your cover art, having your photo on there and not having your photo on there? I personally do not have a photo on mine, but I looked into the, you know, the psychology of color, seeing what colors will really pop mine, being in the safety space.

[00:31:21] It ended up being a little dark and dramatic. So I used the black, but then I also. Used the orange to kind of pop out, stand out, grab attention to what is going on in the safety space. So it doesn’t Oh, a cover art. Doesn’t always have to have a, your face on it. I know a lot of podcasters liked to put their face on there.

[00:31:41] So that way, if you know, when they do blow up like a, you know, a Joe Rogan or somebody they like, Oh yeah, I know that person because I see their face all the time on their cover art, but really. You shouldn’t unless that’s your personal preference.

[00:31:56] Tanner: Lastly, I would say about cover art. It would be that if the image, so if you have a very abstract concept for a podcast, it’s something that doesn’t have a visual component, or it’s not something that art can very easily convey.

[00:32:10] Like if you have a podcast about football, okay, cool. You can put a football there, Heisman trophy there, and you get it. It’s about football, but if you have a podcast that. Isn’t something like that. And doesn’t have visual imagery that directly represents the point. It’s a good idea to include some stylized text to kind of reinforce the artwork or vice versa.

[00:32:28] If the name of your podcast doesn’t exactly set the expectation for the content. It would be good if the artwork reinforced the name. So when you create your podcast artwork, if the image alone. Can convey the content, which is possible. Sometimes there’s probably not a need to include text on the artwork, but if it can’t, then it’s a good idea to, and Pedro, I like what you said about putting your face on there and how that’s not really, if you blow up, maybe people recognize your face, like putting your face on a park bench or something on a bus stop bench.

[00:33:01] Thanks for the question, Brendan. And thanks also to Ian, Alex, and Monica for your questions. So remember, if any of you want to submit questions to the show, you can find us on clubhouse three times a day, five days a week. And just say that you’ve got a question you want to feature it on the show every Friday at 3:00 PM, I host a version of my afternoon show.

[00:33:19] That’s 3:00 PM Eastern. And the point of that particular day is to get questions for tonight’s recording. Today’s Friday, we release on Mondays. So if you’ve got nothing to do 3:00 PM on a Friday, jump into that room, submit some questions and you’ll get to hear them, uh, chosen on the show and we’ll answer them here.

[00:33:34] You’ll be famous forever. Well, you guys, that’s the fourth episode in the bag. How do you feel you feeling like we’re getting better at this or worse?

[00:33:42] Roman: Every episode, it’s a building block better and

[00:33:45] Tanner: better Legos of progress. I

[00:33:47] Pedro: like Lincoln. Yeah, but that just shows my age.

[00:33:50] Tanner: Lincoln logs were the jam. They were the original Lego’s, that’s probably not factually true, but you know, we’re going to stick with it.

[00:33:56] Thanks for listening again this week. You guys, and thank you to Roman and Pedro for being here again and not leaving me to do it on my own. I couldn’t do it without you guys. Anything you want to say to listeners before we

[00:34:08] Pedro: miss Amigos?

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